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.c. watch this. >> the administration still trying to say there is a few rogue agents in cincinnati and the indication they were directly being ordered from washington. >> the reason that lois lerner tried to take the fifth is not because there is a rogue in cincinnati. it's because this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving to it. >> sean: this is investigation is far from over. committee will feature some of the average americans that were harassed by the irs. joining me is kevin brady and erin shop. congressman brady let's set the table, do you see this as a political enemies' list? >> i do. the new active commissioner to shed light and tell the truth where the abuses have the irs have been how broad and wide and deep it is. was this personal information shared with other agencies to harass tea party in my region. it's about hearing from the victims of these abuses. i think it will help and shed light on this investigation. >> sean: i think the question congressman shoppe the administration through ja
but mere moat talls at home cannot. democrats in d.c., listen up. we have of democrat in cincinnati who is fed up and is here speaking up. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies. if you qualify, your rates won't go up due to your first accident. because making mistakes is only human, and so are we. we also offer new car replacement, so if you total your new car, we'll give you the money for a new one. call liberty mutual insurance at... and ask us all about our auto features, like guaranteed repairs, where if you get into an accident and use one of our certified repair shops, the repairs are guaranteed for life. so call... to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? >> neil: we're just getting word of a tornado being sighted in maryland 15 miles north of washington, dc, part of massive storm front
in cincinnati where they were processed. question, in your opinion was the decision to screen and centralize the review of tea party cases the targeting of the president's political enemies? answer, i do not believe that the screening of these cases has anything to do other than consistency and identifying issues that needed to have further development. drop mike. go home. darrell issa refused calls to release the full transcript of that interview. so today, ranking member elijah cummings did it for him. >> it is basically starting with one man who believed that he was doing his job. and he so happened to be a conservative republican that spent six hours with our committee in an interview. when you look at all of the -- the transcripts, there has not been one single syllable alleging in any way that the white house was involved in this targeting. but yet, and still, our republican chairman and other chairmen in the house have gone about saying there was some enemies' list and that the administration was not being for forthright and that they were involved. well, there is nothing like that? >
of back and forth over who is to blame, the rogue agents in cincinnati. couple weeks ago i looked at the partial transcripts from two cincinnati employees that gave interviews with congressional investigators. they said, you know, that lois lerner, the other irs official in charge of the tax exempt division here, she tried to pin this on cincinnati, and when they saw this, they viewed it as a nuclear strike. paz and her interviews with congressional investigators say dozens of tea party applications sat for a year, and they were waiting for guidance. again, bringing this, if you believe what holly paz says closer to d.c., that's what's key here. it just wasn't something emanating out of cincinnati. >> i am looking at the information coming up with this. my question would be has she given any evidence or any information that senior irs officials ordered agents to target conservative groups and where that order would have come from? >> reporter: that's what everybody is looking at here, how far up the food chain this potentially went. paz says some of the applications sat more than
said that the transcripts proved that the irs officials in cincinnati were directly being ordered from washington. it was that ambiguity that somehow officials outside the white house were ordering the targeting. the actual transcript of that irs agent issa is talking about says "i was taking all my direction from eo technical." that's a unit inside the irs in washington. very clearly saying he got his leadership from the officials he works with at the irs in washington, not from anybody outside. issa would love to say the phrase washington over and over again so the people think he means maybe at the means somebody from the white house. something else nefarious. josh green from bloomberg business week authored a column today called "darrell issa's irs investigation is falling apart." i'm struck by what comes across to me with what seems to be the integrity of elijah cummings, the ranking member from maryland, the ranking member on the committee that issa heads. he has said he's looked at all the transcripts all the raw data, all the interviews with officials in cincinnati. he's come t
? this is the cincinnati office that was looking at this. why might an organization choose to incorporate under 501(c)4 rather and 527 if their political and their intent is political? >> i have no idea. >> it is interesting because they don't have to disclose donors. it is very interesting to me that if one looks at -- i am going to ask you for the record of the organizations that you are looking at there. after the citizens united ruling, how much did your applications increase in the 501(c)4 category, did you say? >> i have the information in 2010, the number of applications in 2012, it was 3,057. >> very interesting trends in here, and there's not a person appear that does not understand what is going on politically in this country. the hidden nature of what is affecting campaigns today is very unlike what many of us face when we first were engaged in political life. yes sir. >> i want to elaborate. of the groups that the 298 that were put into that political category that were singled out for special treatment, not all were c4. some were 501(c)3 also. they were singled out for treatment and which
, welcome. as i say, we have had people on the she. we had a cincinnati reporter and anchor that did great work talking about how this was linked to washington and they talked to actual irs employees in cincinnati that said that. this is the first we have seen it go up to the congressional investigation level. now you have the issa committee releasing the transcripts. they talked to two employees, one current and one recently departed from that office who placed the blame squarely on washington. where does that get us? it gets to the boomerang. and those rogue agents and people were ignorant of the law or acting in bad faith. in the agency of 100,000 people and field of bureaucrats, how can we know? those folks over whom the bus has been back say wait a minute, before you get too carried away mr. grayhound driver. don't do this. it looks political. go a head. washington wants these done. and they want it done, send them on their way. >> look at a couple of them, this is the question. early 2010, was there a time when you were aware of applications that referenced tea party and other refere
centralized operation in cincinnati. it's not only the president's wrongdoing his critics say, it's his moral wrongdoing. more evidence he's a bad man and shouldn't be in the white house. this mud ball is personal. it's un-american. it's about one thing, the total hatred of a group of americans who cannot stand the fact that barack obama was elected leader of this country by solid majorities of his fellow citizens. it's mccarthyism with an ethnic twist. he's assembled an enemies list for the irs to use. he's responsible for the death of foreign service officers in libya. he's evil personified. his spokesman is a paid liar. you name it, he's evil through and through. reince priebus and the party he runs has one creed. one secular religion. barack obama should not be president. he must be denied that distinction in history. he must have an asterisk put next to him in the history books saying this guy wasn't really president of the united states. this is what this bunch wants. and everything they say shows it. instead of debating policies and engaging in clean politics, they throw mud because, a
have known it came from cincinnati but cincinnati is pointing their finger at d.c., some lawyer didn't come up with this on their own? what do you think did it? >> what i think happened, congress is the up this weird situation in which we allow political groups to spend on elections with secret donor lists and we tell the irs you make sure they are not partisan organizations. so i think what it seems like so far to me is that somebody whether in washington or cincinnati or wherever in the irs got in their head, okay, here is how we're going to figure out who is partisan. does it say tea party let's give them an extra check. >> eric: we agree on the details. woo who came up with the details? >> let me say one thing which is if what we find out in the end that they applied this scrutiny to the tea party and to a whole bunch of other groups, i think that situation is very different than if the irs itself is being partisan. if the irs turns out to be partisan, i think that is a huge problem. >>> it's the president's version of accountability. >> eric: there are no liberal groups that wer
, as a talked -- >> how about this. how about this. neil: hi is bigger than just cincinnati, a he is mad at washingt for blaming cincinnati. >> h about this, you think that american people have a righ to know, terry jeffrey broke the story that irs of investing in spying come. hiddenamera i plants in clocks in ashtrays to spy on tax payers. by the way today, they cancelled that contract. ou think that american people ave a right to know that? how aut today, just today, jim jordan, in a house hearing, asked t head of the fbi, who is in charge of the investigation? the head of fbiaid, he does not know. ws this not news. neil: you know, i always tnk, ev ifou take sinister intentions aside, which i doubt we have all scandals going on at say same time, the one with the bipartisan ickiness is you kno nsa, getting people's phone records. but i found itonvenient different distraction from i ing that is more damaging but it is provide an opportunity. >> in thenitial stages is s a bipartisan outrage. anea mitchell calling this greatest outrage, it was bipartisan, but this should like so many other
republican darrell issa, agents from the cincinnati office, remember we were told there are just a few rogue agents out there, right? they told him they don't even have the power to hold up the applications and they're being thrown under the bus. watch. >> as late as last week, the administration is still trying to say there are a few rogue agents in cincinnati when in fact the indication they were directly being ordered from washington. bill: there is more from that interview too. begin with our chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel live on capitol hill. mike, good morning to you. what about the new reporting that the cincinnati office was not doing this on its own. what do we have on that? >> reporter: bill, we have transdescribed interviews with some of the cincinnati employees with allegations of a couple guys in ohio going rogue. a cincinnati irs worker worker told, quote, it is impossible. we're controlled by many, many people. we have to submit many, many reports. the chances of two agents being rogue and doing anything like that could never happen. chairman. house oversight
in cincinnati or where ever they were to do what they have done as far as targeting any american as they have. >> all right. so the gentleman from the irs, the acting commissioner has only been there since may 22nd. we can't blame him for what happened beforehand? or can we. >> we was held accountable today. he's the boss. he's the man in charge. >> but there's going to be more transparency. i hear that and my eyes roll around in my head. what in the world does that mean? do you know. >> it doesn't mean pleading the fifth every time you're asked a question. you would expect direct answers. today i asked him i said have you interviewed or asked any of the employees in cincinnati who ordered them to do this. his answer was no. >> that's a perfect example. he's been on the job only since may 22nd but he hasn't even done that. wouldn't that be a starting point. >> it would be the first question you want to know. >> how can you feel like -- he's a perfectly nice gentleman coming there and if he hasn't done the very basic asking what in the world happened isn't that a bad sign to start with. >> one
's a rogue in cincinnati. it's because this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. >> all right. let talk about this whole thing and how high up the food chain we can say. here now is guy benson, the political editor. media editor with the national review and our distinguished co-host of the evening aei kris visiting chancellor ed kunard. author of the book "unintended consequences." you filed a story light this afternoon on nro. you are pointing the finger at william wilkins the chief counsel of the irs, who is a political apontee. tell me about that. >> well, we don't know that wilkins will be implicated in this scandal w. dough know the more we know about the irs scandal, larry the worse it gets for them. from their original explanation that this was a couple of rogue employees in cincinnati, that has been completely exploded. first we went this one up to lois lerner in d.c. the head of the national review showed that a team of lawyers in the technical unit known as tax law specialists were guiding this
has begun interviewing employees from the irs taxexempt office in cincinnati. this is three and a half hours. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. the hearing will come to order. we will give the media a chance to leave. good morning. welcome everyone for being with us today. despite nearly two years of denial, last month the irs finally admitted the truth. three years ago the agency began systematically targeting individuals based on their political belief. however, with the agency has yet to had met and we still have to find out is how widespread this activity was coming and why it began in the first place. let's consider what we do know. in march of 2010, the irs put together a list that snared conservative groups and individuals based solely on their political beliefs. in may of 2011, the irs started sending letters threatening donors to conservatively nonprofits that they could be liable for gift taxes. in june of 2011, the ways and means committee initiated an investigation into the letters and
in the fight against terror? plus the hits keep on coming for the irs. cincinnati workers claim washington officials help direct the tea party probe. and president obama hits the road to taught his health care over hall in claims that premiums go down in the nation's largest state should you believe that? welcome to "the journal editorial report". outrage from the left and the right after the uk newspaper reported that verizon has been handing over phone data for all of its us customers under a secret court order. reports reveal that the monitoring is broader from all three from the major companies. critics are calling the wide scale surveillance another example of government overreach. joining us this week wall street journal columnist, matt kaminski and joe grego. joe, the government is collecting under this court order metadata. >> it is data about data. for a phone call it is which number called which number and how long the call lasted. information about the call but not the content of the call. it is not the lives of others. >> it is not what i'm saying to you on the phone. >> it is
and involved more than a few rogue employees in the tax agency's cincinnati office. collin levy has been following the story for us. he joins me, along with dna henninger and washington columnist kim stossel. collin, you wrote this week about a case of a pro-israel group that seemed to have been targeted after -- right around the time that the administration was pursuing some policies that that group opposed. >> right, paul. we really saw coalescing stories of targeting from other groups this week. this group you're referring to, the pro-israel group called z street, and they basically had a situation where an agent told them that any groups that had issues related to israel were getting special scrutiny in washington, d.c we've also heard now from a doctor's group called doctors for patient care that was actively opposed to obamacare that they may have been -- one of the doctors there may have been personally you hadditied. -- audited. this is in addition to the information that came out this week about lois lerner having signed on. >> paul: she was the -- she's now on suspension, but s
to look. >> as last week, the administration said there is a few rogue agents in cincinnati, when the indication is they were directly being ordered from washington. >> fox report. >> harris: new details on what congressional investigators have uncovered in the irs scandal about where the order came from to take aim at certain americans for their political beliefs. >>> and same agency under fire for partying with your tax dollars. have you seen the dance video? but this goes well beyond that and other so-called training videos. in minutes, how a ton of cash was spent on lavish conferences, including luxury suites for staffers at the irs. also, pressure mounting on the nation's top law enforcement officer, eric holder, after journalists were investigated and a fox news reporter called a criminal co-conspirator. one law maker now saying he wants the attorney general to answer questions upon request and if he doesn't -- >> we ought to subpoena the attorney general to come back and answer those questions specifically. >> harris: i'm harris faulkner. we begin with a mountain of new evi
? we'll talk to the radio voice of cincinnati. we're watching a dramatic shift in the image of one of the best-known companies in the world. here is my take on google. they started out with the unofficial motto, don't be evil. and their benign image helped them conquer the world. google has 425 million activity g-mail users. biggest internet company of them all, but that image has taken a few hits recently and in the world of benign, youthful high-tech exuberance, that could be bad. and they say that everyone has been snooping on everyone's e-mail, g-mail. and a privacy brent scott filed suit against google, he doesn't like them scanning his personal e-mails to target ads. and the executive chair eric schmidt was tied in the very center of president obama's presidential campaign, called a crony capitalism. there you have it, three hits to google's image. they are fighting back and they want the government to admit that google was forced to submit to orders. they say they don't willingly let the government snoop. it's an uphill struggle. an image that's challenged is very hard to re
the beginning that this was much bigger than the cincinnati office. i think we're going to see in some congressional hearings there were other offices involved but there's a path from the top down. this its not a bottom-up operation. >> neil: when that many agents are involved -- i have had legal scholars say when it comes to irs cases where they go after a large number of groups claiming for filing for tax exempt status, this is not unusual. what is unusual, and you were at the receiving end of this to make sure they are all of the same political stripe. that is what is unusual and that is what is offensive. >> itself is offensive. and again, still think that they're barking up the wrong tree. there's a lot of people on the left, including "the new york times," trying to provide cover. i mean, here it is, we said the irs was wrong the irs has now admitted they were wrong and inappropriate, and then you have the "new york times" running stories saying that, those questions were appropriate because it's so unclear what is political activity or not. that's factually not true. >> neil: th
. >> it's hard to believe that these are just a bunch of rogue folks in cincinnati that some day decided, hey, let's just go give extra scrutiny to people who have a conservative political flosfy. >> i still hear people saying that we were low level employees so we were lower than dirt. take it for what it is. they were basically throwing us underneath the bus, that was a quote from them. >> he says he's not taking anything off the take. did not guarantee firings, but he will hold people accountable. >> the president and his people have taken great pains to try to stay as far above the fray in the irs scandal as possible. >> reporter: as the president tried to focus on his legislative jaensd, the debate over the irs scandal degenerated into mud slinging. >> they're paid liar, they're spokesperson, he's still make up things about what happened. >> ice is a believes that it was ordered from washington. so carney pointed out that an inspector gentle audit found no issues with that. >> perhaps there were issues that he has with the ig. >> this was not an effort driven by the white house. it
of conservative group, cincinnati irs employee told investigators app irs lawyer in washington, carter hull, oversaw her work and suggested questions to does, quote, i was essentially a front person because i had no autonomy or no authority to agent on applications without carter's influence or input. the agent said he was angry when lois lerner was scapegoating cincinnati, quote, i was furious. it looked like lois lerner put it op us. she pled the fifth in the hearing after trying to defend herself. the transcript and interviews contradict the initial narrative targeting a couple agents in cincinnati going rogue. lou? lou: thank you. meanwhile, attorney general eric holder's role in the targeting of journalists in the leak investigations, the principle topic at a hearing held by the senate appropriations subcommittee. the attorney general forced to defend his department's abuse of the first amendment leading to an admission that changes need to be made. fox news correspondent shannon breen with the report. >> i hope you agree the american people deserve an attorney general completely focus
to the statements of the targeting was not just the action of its agents in cincinnati. i've beach and aged in cincinnati. when i inquired as to why my application was taking so long, he said we had been waiting from guidance from our superiors as to your organization and similar organizations. we have received that guidance and you will receive your answer on a first in and first out basis. and not c4 like other organizations today, we share ideas. we reject expansion of the state beyond his legitimate authority and we dallas regard human liberty. i respectfully it is a co-equal branch of the federal government invested with the authority to the power of the executive branch. i asked you act with courage and more resolve. my time was running low. >> you can conclude. >> i ask that you check the power of the executive branch. you will protect and defend human liberty for ourselves and our posterity. >> our next witness is the founder and president of the lawrence county tea party in south carolina. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for having me today. i am the president of
on the cincinnati office, saying irs workers and washington were closely supervising the targeting of conservative groups. molly henneberg joins us live from washington. one of those employees says it was like a, quote, nuclear strike by top irs officials. what did she mean by that? >> that irs employee, elizabeth half ache -- hofacre, said she was appalled that higher ups were pinning this on rogue agents in cincinnati and says she and other cincinnati agents would not have the autonomy to do something like target certain conservative groups. and shep went on to say, quote, i was infuriated because they are inaccurate and everybody that's been making those statements should know they are inaccurate. i just thought when lois lerner dropped that bombshell, oh, it was cincinnati's problem, she thought it would go away. but instead it exploded. lois lerner was the head of the tax exempt division who was in charge while the targeting was going on. she said the problem started with low level agents in cincinnati. lois lerner is now on paid administrative leave from the irs after she refused to resign.
. this was in cincinnati where the irs office i don't think you can hold him a accountable. >> i can'tcc account for every conversation that might have had outside the white house. i can't tell how many people aÑpd time and again that the taxpayer-funded witch-hunts ended more than a year ago, tonight there are people in this studio audience that are going to say they've been targeted as recently as two weeks ago. joining me now the attorneys representing some of the americans in our studio tonight. guys, welcome, both of you, to the show. thanks. >> thank you for having us. >> sean: jay, let me start with a time here.ç? lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct. that's when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exemption, which actually complicated and madee it it wor. in fact, some o
right, we shall watch, hank you. >> thank you. neil: rogue ants in cincinnati going after tear tea party thin, going after tear tea party thin, lie, there is a pursuit we all share. a better life r your family, a better opportunity for your business, better legacy to leave the world. we he always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight to every iestment, and integrity to every plan. we arrgand we'rready to work for you. neil: well good golly, miss holly, this is a doozy, congressional sources confirming that hlyass, formay a top deputy in irs division, reviewed to of those applications herself. not from cincinnati where we're told originally that rogue agencies were doing this but from washington d.c. where miss paz herself was doing this. mystery, getting more misterrousbutt suld not be a scker. that examination were done at a local office. >> that is ridulous claim they made in first place. itous like holly is now also trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati people thought they were waiting for direct in dc. but it was really just a mi
in cincinnati going after tear tea party thin, lie, today, proof. the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mothe mother! traveling is easy with the venture card becase you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna py doe rock? oh, yoguys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you nver miss e fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet neil: well good golly, miss holly, this is a doozy, congressional sources confirming that holly pass, formally a top deputy in irs division, reviewed up to 30 of those applications herself. not from cincinnati where we're told originally that rogue agencies were doing this but from washington d.c. where miss paz herself was doing this. mystery, getting more misterrous, but it should not be a shocker. that examinations were done at a local office. >> that is ridiculous claim they made in first place. it sounds like holly is now also trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati peopl
the committee has begun interviewing employees from the irs tax-exempt office in cincinnati. this is three and a half hours. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. the hearing will come to order. we'll get immediate the chance to leave. good morning. welcome to everyone. for being with us today. despite nearly two years of denials, last month the irs finally admitted the truth, three years ago the agency began systematically targeting individuals based on their political beliefs. however, what the agency has yet to admit, and what we still need to find out, is just how widespread this activity was, who ordered it and why it began in the first place. now, let's consider what we do know. in march 2010, the irs put together a target list that ensnared conservative groups and individuals based solely on their political beliefs. in may 2011, the irs started sending letters threatening donors to conservative leaning non-profits that they could be liable for gift taxes. in june 2011, the ways and means committee initiated an investigation
-called rogue agents out of cincinnati who some in the administration want us to believe orchestrated the whole thing. reporting a man called carter hull is now retiring. washington d.c. based irs official that are now saying oversaw at least in part singling out of the tea party groups. one irs employee calling this man a micromanager saying you couldn't act in a tax exempt matter without carter knowing about it. and media editor for the national review. great report and you can check it out at national review.com. let's talk turkey because we have been told repeatedly, two rogue meetings that cincinnati who did this. there is not a connection to washington or any larger faction so who is carter hull, where had s he based? >> we heard that explanation this is a couple of rogue agents from the obama administration, from the top officials in the irs and some democratic lawmakers. that now i think has been exploded. this was managed from washington, d.c. from the outset. we at national review reported two weeks ago now that what is known as the technical office in washington, d.c. which is a grou
the administration's still trying to say there's a few rogue agents in cincinnati when in fact the indication is they were directly being ordered from washington. secondly, the culture of the federal workforce is one where i don't think you can underestimate that if you don't keep reminding the voters but also the federal workers that we're watching, this will happen again. >> so you don't think it's been fixed? >> well, it doesn't stay fixed. >> well, it doesn't stay fixed. you know, understand that some of the things that they're saying, well, this wouldn't happen again, they would still happen again. one example in anaheim when they bought their tickets they said, well, we'll pay the per diem rate for these hotel rooms. they didn't negotiate, they didn't bid it. and this was 2,700 folks, so they could have gotten a considerable reduction. instead what they said is we'll pay full boat, but we want some perks. so they ended up with free drinks, tickets to games, basically kickbacks. this is hard to find. this is where inspector generals do their work both on behalf of -- >> the time we shoul
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in cincinnati were, quote, directly being ordered from washington. it was that ambiguity that opened up the idea that somehow officials outside the irs like at the white house were ordering the targeting. the actual transcript of that irs agent issa is talking about says, quote, i was taking all my direction from eo technical. that's eo technical, a unit inside the irs in washington. very clearly saying he got his leadership from the officials he works with at the irs in washington, not from anybody outside. although issa would love to say the phrase "washington" over and over again so the people think maybe he means somebody from the white house, maybe he means david plouffe from the campaign, something else nefarious. josh green from bloomberg business week authored a column today called "darrell issa's irs investigation is falling apart." and nick confesori is a reporter for "the new york times." i'm struck by what comes across to me with what seems to be the integrity of elijah cummings, the ranking member from maryland, the ranking member on the committee that issa heads. he has said he's l
spent i understand that. justice which real quick to cincinnati. did it originate in cincinnati and don't happen in cincinnati? is a go in deeper, can you tell that you? >> what i think is important to understand -- >> i'm running out of time but did you know -- >> there were individuals, here's the point, i need to make this point of the individual that supervises the cincinnati office sat in washington, d.c. >> i understand and address know you don't know yet whether it is just in cincinnati? >> we don't know the and. if you wanted to expand i could but -- >> i don't have the time. >> i don't know the definitive answer to the question. >> is any doubt in your mind that it doesn't lead to back farther speak as i don't understand the question. >> is it just cincinnati or does it come towards washington? how high does it go? >> i was about to say the people in washington, d.c., in particular for example, the position of director rulings and agreement which is in my -- >> okay so could go further. >> there are five levels but needs the commissioners office but they're involved in these ac
there is some question, is this some rogue agents in cincinnati? it is hard to believe that just somebody stood up one day, here's a way we can really embarass people that are of a particular political philosophy. martha: one of the most shocking revelations from yesterday's hearing was that nobody seems willing to tell the inspector general exactly who ordered them to sift out for these tea party groups, conservative groups but werfel says he will get to the bottom of that question. here he is from yesterday. >> so no one with any knowledge who gave the directive to do this? >> that's correct. questioned during the audit phase of this. >> mr. werfel are you satisfied with that response from individuals in cincinnati? >> no. >> will you get to the bottom of that? >> we have to get to the bottom of that. >> no matter how high it went up the change, you will find out who made this order? >> we will uncover every fact. martha: that is the job set before him here. stuart varney, fox business network joins me right now. j. russell george, the inspector general who looked all this and has been he hav
committee have gone tohe cincinnati and they areer interviewing the workers counsel there.th if at any point some ofke these federal workers feel they are vulnerable and say w they were given signals by political appointees theya should do this, we're talkingam about a new ballgame. and irs commissioner douglas shulman going to the white house 157 times, three times than kathleen sebelius.t >> paul: let me ask you,se the defense for shulman from the whitesh house, this wasn just obamacare in which the irs has a significant y new role. what do you expect? >> kathleen sebelius wase the secretary of hss.ti she was going to be in charge of implementing the whole thing andi went to the white house about 50 times. i s would like to to know who he was talking about to.l lower staffers or people around>> the oval office. >> paul: some of the groups that agreed to our friend, on behalf of tea party groups. what do you make -- they are charging bias enforcement with a they arehe calling viewpointin discrimination? >> i think the suits already going to be really important way to learn more what happene
was going on in cincinnati. reuters is rorting that. the two cincinnati workers saying that yes, the i.r.s. was telling them in d.c. what to do. what do you think? >> think that we will see more evidence coming out. this is not about the rule of law. th is about the obama administration trying to control the flow of information. i am sensing a pattern here between the i.r.s. scandal, the media tracking scandal, the n.s.a. now, you know, spying on the average americans. this is, this is an administration that wan to control the flow of informaon. it's suddenly coming to head here with the i.r.s. scandal. i couldn't agree with steve more about this. >> you know, morgan, here is the deal. conservative groups, of course they have to be questio like everybody else. but they were in question like everybody else. they were basically asked about their book they were reading. meetings, donors. ten democrats had pressurethe i.r.s. to do more. senators levin said basically why is the i.r.s. being so passive? al franken and schumer threatened the i.r.s. with legislation if they didn't act. go ahe
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